Mae Meena Upadhyaya yn enetegydd meddygol blaenllaw o Gymru ac yn Athro emerita ym Mhrifysgol Caerdydd, wedi’i geni a’i magu yn India. Hi oedd yr athro benywaidd Prydeinig-Indiaidd cyntaf i dderbyn cymrodoriaeth er anrhydedd ym Mhrifysgol Cymru Y Drindod Dewi Sant. Mae Meena wedi gwneud cyfraniadau sylweddol i gymunedau lleiafrifoedd ethnig yng Nghymru, ac mae’n arbennig o angerddol dros gynrychioli menywod o’r cymunedau hyn ar bob lefel. Bu’n cyd-gyfarwyddo’r llyfr Saith deg Mlynedd o Struggle and Achievement: Life Stories of Ethnic Minority Women in Wales 2019 a sefydlodd Gwobrau Cyflawniad Menywod Asiaidd Cymru, Cymdeithas Cyflawniad Menywod Lleiafrifoedd Ethnig Cymru bellach, a’r sefydliad Ethnic Minority Women in Welsh Healthcare.

Trawsgrifiad o gyfweliad gyda Meena Upadhyaya gan Radha Patel a Robin Chaddah-Duke

Recordiwyd y cyfweliad hwn dros ddau recordiad ar wahân.  

Interview (part 1) with Meena Upadhyaya

I have to admit that, when I joined Institute of Medical Genetics. As a postdoctoral fellowship fellow, after finishing my PhD, my mentor, Professor Peter Harper, played a significant role in my development. I remember that, in 1987, he was invited to a conference in New York, and he was too busy, so he asked me to represent him. I was a bundle of nerves then, and still continued to be so, I was really nervous. I think we basically, I prepared my talk, and I had a rehearsal with him, and he just said, you will be fine.

He had more confidence in my research, in my activities than I ever did in myself. And I thank him ever so much for giving me an opportunity to develop and transform in this country. Sadly, he died in 2021 because of covid. So Peter was my role model, he was my mentor, and I would always remain grateful to him.

There are other people as well who have helped me, in my journey. Many of my friends who, helped me with the childminding while I was traveling. My work involved frequent visits to international conferences. And I had to leave my daughter with different friends. I remember, in 1990, I presented a very interesting case at a conference in New York. And I was invited to visit, the Howard Hughes Institute at Salt Lake City for a month. This was an exciting moment for my career, so I immediately agreed. But when I came home, I realized it was going to... my visit was going to overlap with the my daughter's exams.

So I decided to postpone it. And, as it happened on 6th of July, as I was boarding the plane for Salt Lake City, I came to know that two important papers came out that morning from two different labs and one of them was from Salt Lake City. That was an important finding, which reported the cloning of a neurofibromatosis gene.

Had I joined them earlier, I would have been on that paper and that would have been a landmark in my career. But I don't regret to this day because I did the right thing. My daughter needed me. Her studies were important as well. So, you know, I did the right thing, at the time.

I also remember that, as I said, I travelled widely, and on one occasion, I was invited to give a talk on two different continents, you know. So I was invited to give a talk in Japan, in Kyoto, and on the same day in San Francisco, on a different, topic. And this was challenging and would you believe it I managed to do both the talks because after finishing my talk in Kyoto, I took the flight from Osaka Airport to San Francisco. And during my flight, I crossed the equator, gained a day. So I was able to do the second talk as well on the same day on two different continents and I can never forget that. But after my second talk, I was like a zombie. I didn't know whether I was coming and going, it was a tiring trip. So that's... I managed to the break the glass ceiling because through my dedication and hard work I was awarded, professorship. I was the first, professor in medical genetics. I was the first Indian, British, female professor in medical genetics in the UK. This, I think I have to admit that, this was not given to me, on a plate. I had to struggle and struggle for it. I was discriminated on a number of occasions. People were often, you know, I was often mistaken to be a tea lady because I offered to serve coffee during a meeting.  And, there's some people who made my life miserable and now having achieved my ambition, I want to thank them for making my life miserable because if it wasn't for that, I wouldn't have work that hard. I every insult made me more resolute in my life.

So I, you know, now is the time for me to thank them. Because if they have not treated me badly, I wouldn't have reacted. I wouldn't have made a resolution that I'm going to do well. And I'm going to show these people that, you know, they cannot, treat me as they did. And this is the message to take from me, actually, because never give up.

Actually, in life, you will always have ups and downs. Sometimes there are more downs than ups. And you just have to accept it and, and say, okay, what can I do actually, and, and do something which will help other people. That's also important. How do you make difference to other people's lives. I've had the opportunity to do that.

Through my research, I helped many patients, by finding, you know, through my research findings. And also my involvement with the communities and with the community awards, allowed me to, make a difference to their lives.

Radha: So what inspired you, following from that, what inspired you to set up the award?

Meena: Right. So in 2008, I was, nominated for Welsh Woman of the year award in science and technology. I was one of the finalist and, sadly, I didn't get the award. But when I looked around, I found there were hardly any ethnic minority women in the room, and I was the only finalist. As an ethnic minority person at that point, I thought, wouldn't it be nice if we had our own award ceremony, for Asian women at that?

And I was too very busy with my work. So I slept on it for two years, and then I got together with like-minded women from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, and Nepal. And we discussed about the organization for Asian Women. And I was also supported by, Julie Morgan, who was the MP at the time.

And so they were, you know, our first, this project was established in 2010 and first award ceremony was held in 2011. It was attended by 200 people, and it was a great success. And since then we have gone from strength to strength. And, in 2019, we decided to embrace all ethnic minority women for the award ceremony.

And that was one of the best decisions I ever meet. This has been so enriching to include everybody, to be inclusive, and to, you know, and so far we have identified at least 100 winners, through our award ceremony. This, cohort represents a talented group in Wales. And, you know, these women, we've already, reported life stories of 40 of these women.

This has been, published as a book, called 70 Years of Struggle and Achievement - Life Stories of Ethnic Minority Women. So I'm very pleased that through this award ceremony, we have identified so many role models for different communities. That's the important thing. These women can go ahead and make a difference to other people's life. And it's on a larger scale, global scale.

We have not just confined to one country, it’s for every country. And, last year we also, organised, the, an event on community cohesion called Festival of Communities. And it was to bring all the communities together so we can work in harmony. And this event was attended by over 600 people. We focused on music, dance and drama, and it was just wonderful, it was just... And we also had stalls and we in different countries had opportunity to showcase their culture. We ran workshops and dance and health. And, there was such a huge demand for this event, that we decided to hold another one in Wrexham on 25th of January next year. So I think through this award ceremony we have moved onto community cohesion events, we have moved on to do other things. You know, and we've also set up, another organisation for healthcare workers in Wales. In 2014, 2 or 3 of my friends who had we were consultant at the time, approached me and said, look, we are at the top of our career, but we don't have the job satisfaction because we are not represented on, on committees, we are not represented, in leadership position. And I said, okay, let's work together. So we decided to set up an organisation, which really, included all healthcare workers in Wales from ethnic minority backgrounds. And our aim was to empower ethnic minority women in Welsh healthcare through interaction and promote equality and diversity.

We also ran our own mentoring program, which has already had a lot of mentees in Wales. And, we have organised a healthcare conference, on health inequalities at the end of this month, and, for this, we have excellent line of speakers. So I think we have helped and everyone has helped other causes as well. Our main aim is to empower ethnic minority women in Wales.

So ethnic minority Welsh women achievement association is there to empower ethnic minority women, identify role models, for different communities and facilitate community cohesion and integration.

Robin: I wanted to go back to a little a little section. I was just interested if you think the award ceremony has allowed people to feel more represented in in the wider healthcare sphere, if that makes sense. Do you think that allowing people, giving these people awards leads to them getting more opportunities, if that makes sense? Has it made a difference?

Meena: Difference in what?

Robin: In terms of you know, lots of people felt perhaps that they weren't included in these award ceremonies, etcetera, etcetera. Because well, I'd like to know why you think they weren't included firstly, and secondly...

Meena: Yeah you’re absolutely right we are getting a lot more nominations now from very high achiever who didn't consider us in the beginning actually I think it was getting that confidence actually, they are good enough, you know, re they doing things, are they transparent. Are they doing things appropriately because there's only... So one of the strengths of our award ceremony is we have excellent panel of judges.

It is a very transparent process, okay. Everybody is interviewed and they only are selected after a unanimous decision. So if somebody has got any grievances we have, we can provide them their feedback, constructive feedback. You know we are always encouraging people to apply again if they're not successful first time, they're welcome to apply again.

So that's yeah you are right actually because I mean these awards, you know, now I'm so proud of it actually that we are getting more nominations. Definitely. Two months ago, we had a get together for all the winners, and I could not believe it. There was so much enthusiasm. There was so much buzz in that room.

I just thought, oh, this is so fantastic, you know, I never thought, you know, when we were setting up the awards... it was so wonderful to see the outcome, that outcome in that room that what was offered actually. And we are going to organise another meeting for these women because they want to move things forward. They are very enthusiastic, and we just have to find some funding to do it.

Radha: What, what legacy would you like to leave for future generations?

Meena: My legacy would be help people. My legacy would be to, not to give up and try your best to help others.

Radha: And how would you like people to remember you for the contributions that you've made?

Meena: So all I can say is, when I came to this country, I was not at all ambitious. I thought I would follow the footsteps of my sisters, who were housewives in India. And now when I reflect on it, and I look back, I could have never imagined that not only I will go up, in my own profession, but also be able to help women in Wales to achieve their objectives.

Interview (part 2) with Meena Upadhyaya

Meena: I would like to be remembered as a very ordinary person who came to this country as a housewife. I had no ambitions whatsoever. I thought I would follow the footsteps of my sisters, who were also housewives in India. Circumstances changed for me and, I became a professional person. From there I decided to empower women from ethnic minority background.

So I like to be remembered as somebody who was who started her life, with very little, opportunities let's put it this way. Who never really was ambitious, actually. She was just driven by the circumstances in her life and was able to achieve her own objectives, as well as her able to help other people who were underrepresented in this country and who were also disadvantaged.

Is that the right answer?

Radha:: Yeah, That's really great. Thank you so much.

Meena: Because I gave it in a different format, actually.

Radha: Yeah, yeah. Because you said it before as well. But yeah, I think that's a nice like snippet as well.

Meena: Underrepresented and disadvantaged both which represent the ethnic minority women.

Radha: Yeah that makes sense.

Meena: So that's but I think it also makes it that I wasn't... I’m being very, very real, actually, that I was a very ordinary person actually, I came here you know, I could be one of thousands. You know, we all came, you know, as a housewife, actually. And we, many of my friends who, my contemporaries, you know, they are quite happy they’re leading a good life.

I'm not saying that, yeah, but, I think it's, you can you still. My message is you can still be, you can still make a difference to people's life without being ambitious. Then, you know, because when we are born, we have our ambition. We want to be so and so. Once I was married, all that ambition was gone.

Actually, there was a, I did have ambition, but the culture clashed with my ambition. I just thought, I honestly thought when I came here I said, good I’m married now, I probably have a couple of children and that's it, my life is sealed. You know, I don't - I couldn't see anything beyond that. So this is this is a story that, you know, you don't know what is around the corner actually what you might you know, how it might end, actually.

And the retirement has been particularly very interesting because, I had the opportunity to work with the Welsh Government as a non-executive director on the Civil Service Board, which was a, a great opportunity for me. I was in Texas, you know, I, I was not sufficiently experienced, but I was able to bring a different perspective to the board.

And at the same time, I've also been involved in many other, boards, you know, like, for instance, a council member for the Learned Society of Wales, as well as, I'm also, on the council for the Royal College of Pathologists. So I am offering advice and my service to, national organisations.